‍Vince Vitale [00:00:43] Hi friends, welcome to Ask Away where we receive every question as a gift. We're committed to that because we believe that every question has a true answer, and that all truth is grounded in God. Therefore, whatever your question is, we believe it is an invitation to learn something about who God is and what he has done, and the fullness of life that he invites us into. And that gets us excited. I'm Vince, and I'm here with my colleague, best friend and wife, Jo Vitale, who is a legend because just today she has managed to feed and dress a three and a five-year-old, do a school drop off and a school pickup, do a full-on theatrical performance of Baby Jesus and the Wise Man at the behest of our three-year-old son, and prep for this podcast recording. So, let's hear it for Jo! 

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Jo Vitale [00:01:32] Yeah. Thank you. And it's only lunchtime, so who knows where the rest of the day is going to go. Though it might not seem so impressive depending on how this recording goes, prepping for this and doing all those things simultaneously might make for an interesting podcast episode. We shall see. But, yeah, shout out to all the moms out there. We're recording this around Mother's Day and I was thinking, well, shall I post anything on social media to acknowledge Mother's Day? And then I looked down at the kitchen floor this morning, and it was just such a disgrace that I thought, well, the only thing that I really could say at this point is just take a photo of the disastrous mess under the kitchen table where our children eat and just hashtag all the moms out there. I see you; we do see you. 

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Vince Vitale [00:02:11] Yeah. Today's question is a wonderful one. It's super thoughtful. It's rich it's practical. It's actually a question we discussed a long time ago, but it's just so helpful that we wanted to circle back to it, especially as it's taking on some particular personal relevance to us at the moment, which we'll discuss. So, here's today's question from Brittany. "I do not see the point of praying if the outcome is already determined. Prayer is something that I've always struggled with. If God is all knowing and he has the future mapped out, what is the purpose of prayer? Does prayer really have any influence on God. In addition, if he already knows all of our thoughts and ways, what is the purpose of expressing them to him verbally?" 

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Jo Vitale [00:02:58] Yeah, Britney, I really thank you for this question and just the extremely thoughtful way that you have framed it. You actually sent in this question a while back now, and at the time when I received it, I think I was coming at it more from a sort of intellectual perspective. It's interesting questions to wrestle through, but it really took on a different meaning for me in the last year and a half as your questions, in a way, they sort of became some of my own questions. My dad, we found out a year and a half ago that he had myelofibrosis, which is a bone marrow cancer, and it wasn't something for which there were any easy treatments. The only thing that had any possibility of really working for him or curing him was a stem cell transplant. But some of the statistics around survival weren't great. And so, we were kind of faced with this really hard, challenging situation of is my dad going to be alive? Honestly, I went to visit him in England at Christmas not knowing would I see him again after that, or might that be a last visit for me? 

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[00:04:05] it was sort of this very intense season that we've been in, and I know that many of you have walked through this as well with family members who perhaps has cancer. Perhaps it's something else. But you've been there praying for a loved one and wrestling through these questions around prayer and the experience of that, of not knowing how to pray around healing and what you should expect from God. I can remember at the time that I sort of came to this place initially where, well, what I really focused on was, whatever happens, I know that my dad is going to be okay because he's going to be with Jesus. And I had a lot of faith about that. And if you'd heard me speaking, you may sort of thought, wow, isn't Jo's faith so amazing? Because she knows, no matter what, that her dad knows Jesus and is loved by him, and therefore whether he lives or dies, it will all be okay. It sounded super impressive the way that I was sort of talking about it. But I realized over time that actually part of the reason that I focused that more on that, well, whatever happens, whether he lives or dies, he'll be with God, was actually because I was a bit too afraid to really ask for the thing that I really wanted, which was his healing in this lifetime. 

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[00:05:11] I think perhaps I'd seen other close friends who I'd prayed for not survive in a similar situation, and I'd seen how disappointed people had been in God, how angry they'd been. And so, I think there was the part of me that was even sort of trying to protect God's reputation somehow, as if, well, if I don't ask God for my dad's healing, then I won't get mad at him if it doesn't happen. And also, all the other people who are watching us who don't know God yet won't be able to use it as justification to say, well, you prayed and God didn't answer your prayer, so obviously he doesn't exist. And so, I was doing this sort of strange thing when out of a desire to not wind up feeling hurt by God or kind of manage his reputation in terms of witnessing to other people, I wasn't actually praying in faith. And eventually I reached this point where I kind of felt the Holy Spirit convicting me one day and saying, "Jo, why won't you ask me for healing? Why won't you ask for the thing you actually want?" Yes, it's true that if my dad doesn't survive, I will still be good, but why wouldn't you ask? And I sort of felt that he was challenging me of my perception of him. The question that came to mind was, don't you think that I'm a good father who likes to give good gifts to his children? 

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[00:06:24] And why do you have faith enough to believe in eternal life? But you don't have faith enough to come to me with the things that you really want, and trust me with the desires of your heart. So, it really was convicting for me as I realized that intellectually and biblically and theoretically, I sort of felt like I had answers to these prayers. But when it came to these questions that you're asking, that when it came to the application of them in my own life, I was actually too scared initially to bring them before God until he convicted me about it. And that was the point in which I actually started coming to him in faith and really asking him for the scary thing, for the thing that I couldn't control, which I had to bring the prayer before him not being able to determine the outcome. If you set your sights on it ending badly, worst case scenario, then you won't be disappointed when it is the worst-case scenario. But if you ask God with hope in your heart, that he might answer your prayers the way you long for him to, then it's vulnerable and it's risky and it's hard. So, I understood your question in a different way, having walked through it myself. And so, I really do want to thank you for it today. 

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Vince Vitale [00:07:27] I suspect a lot of our listeners can relate to what you've shared, Jo. And to Brittany’s question, I'm really thankful that we get a chance to speak into this, and in some ways, especially into the struggle. I've definitely found in my own experience, that's often where it's the hardest, but also where the greatest fruit is waiting to be found. Like in my experience, when I look back over pretty much all of the most significant relationships in my life, not just with God, but all of the significant relationships in my life, the hardest conversations to have in a relationship, the ones I didn't want to have, the uncomfortable ones, the ones I sometimes didn't even see the point of having because I doubted whether they would really change anything, those have still often wound up being the most significant and the most fruitful conversations in so many of my relationships. So, there's a lot to say here, but at the outset, I find it encouraging, particularly to be able to speak into this struggle. And I'm so thankful that within the Christian faith, God gives us the freedom to bring a question like this and all of our emotions to God. We see that throughout Scripture. We just think of Jesus himself praying, if it's possible, let this cup pass for me. And even why have you forsaken me? Which I've always taken that to be such an encouragement, because it means that even an emotional prayer like that is not unfaithful. It's not sinful. 

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[00:08:51] We know that because Jesus prayed it, even as he modeled beautiful faith with that also being the first verse of Psalm 22, which you would have known and which he's quoting and is worth going in and reading. So much to unpack in Brittany's question, but to start with, we just have to get clear about what prayer is, because we're going to come to some off base conclusions if we're not thinking clearly about what we're actually talking about when we talk about prayer. And sometimes I think we can have a very thin, superficial conception of prayer, as if prayer is just making requests and just asking for stuff. And not that that's not some component of prayer, but I think of prayer much more broadly as communicating with God. And that can take many different forms. Yes, it can take the form of petition, but it can also take the form of praise, of confession, of thanksgiving, being grateful to God for things. 

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[00:09:51] I mean, those are some of the standard prayer categories that maybe we hear of frequently, but I think there are others as well. I find that quite a lot of my prayer is just expressing affection to God. It's actually not quite the same as praising him, maybe for his holiness, for things that he's done. This is more just I'm just telling God that I love them, that I adore him, that I enjoy spending time with him. Just expressing affection in his direction or even just updating It kind of seems a bit trivial, but it's a significant part of any relationship. Just telling him how I'm feeling and what's going on in my heart as I go about day to day. And sometimes I even think prayer is not verbal. It doesn't even have to include talking. Because we know in most of our relationship, communication is highly nonverbal. And I find sometimes a frequent prayer that that I have, Jo always laughs at me because whenever the sun comes out, if the sun comes through the clouds, I always point my face towards the sun. I like the feeling of the warmth of the sun on my face. 

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Jo Vitale [00:10:54] Like a sunflower. 

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Vince Vitale [00:10:56] Like a sunflower, she says. But whenever that happens, I smile. And there's just a recognition that that warmth of the sun is created by God and is a gift from God. I don't say any words. I often don't say any words, even in my head. But I think that that's prayer, too, as a form of communication with God. 

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Jo Vitale [00:11:15] Yeah, I think that's really helpful, because as long as we're framing it in terms of the purpose of prayer is to get an answer to my question, it will be so narrow. I think about our relationship, if I sort of thought, well, I know that if I bring this to Vince, he already knows how I'm feeling anyway, then what's the point? Then we're going to talk a lot less. But as much a part of me bringing questions that I have to Vince, it's just being with him, it's just laughing with him, it's just hearing what he has to say, it really changes the way you think about communication with God as well. When we frame it in those terms. I think the other thing I've noticed about myself is that actually, the longer I'm a Christian, the less talking I do in praying. I find myself increasingly moving towards what you've been speaking about, Vince, in terms of just wanting to be with Jesus, not needing like particular outcomes or resolutions even, but sometimes just this desire just to be in his presence. And I think I've also shifted more from looking at prayer in terms of here's my list that I need to bring to God today, and more in terms of a posture of sitting and listening at the start of the day and saying, Lord, what are you doing in the world today? 

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[00:12:26] And how are you moving? Help me to have eyes to see what you're doing and ears to hear. And almost reorienting prayer to be more about listening than it even is about me talking to him. Yes, talking to him is a big part of it, and I think he wants to hear from me. I think he wants to hear what's on my heart, but I think so much more. Just this recognition of that he is up to so much, and it's such an amazing honor, and he wants to include us in it. And I don't want to miss what he's doing. And so almost prayer becoming more about that space of saying, God, help me to be watchful. Help me to be watchful about how you work in the world, and to have ears to hear what's on your heart. We spoke on our dating episode a little while ago about having listeners hearts when it comes to relationships, but I think this is so true about our prayer life as well. Wanting to just continue to learn what it means to have the posture in prayer of having a listener’s heart before the Lord. 

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Vince Vitale [00:13:22] Yeah, that's really good. I was just thinking that if you had a chance to spend some time, have a coffee with whoever you would identify as the wisest person in the world, right, you should do more listening than talking. That would make sense. That would be a good way to spend that time. Not that you shouldn't talk at all, but you should ask good questions and be in a posture of listening. But so often with God, that should be the case more than with anyone. But we can have a tendency to just talk, talk, talk, and never actually spend some time just in his presence or just listening to him. So, Brittany asks, what is the point of praying if the outcome is already determined? If God is all knowing and he has the future mapped out, what is the purpose of prayer? Now, this is a great philosophical component to the question, raises lots of complex issues about what it means to say that God has the future mapped out, and whether that means that he has every detail determined, or whether there are final destinations that he's intending, while allowing for more variables along the way. Big discussion to be had there. But even if a certain outcome is already determined in the strongest sense. What if it is already determined precisely because of the prayer you are going to pray? 

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Jo Vitale [00:14:41] Right. 

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Vince Vitale [00:14:42] If God can know the future outcome, then he can also know about your future prayer. And so, he can allow that prayer to contribute to the outcome in a meaningful way. And so, a key distinction here to keep in mind is that knowing the future is different than forcing the future. I actually often know what my sons are going to do next. For example, if I'm watching them from across a room, I can see them interacting and I know with actually quite a high level of confidence what their next move is going to be, especially in certain situations, usually, especially when they're frustrated and they're about to lash out. But that doesn't mean I'm forcing them to do anything or that I'm taking away their free will. In fact, I might be 20ft away on the other side of the room. It just means that I know them really well. And God knows us far better than I know my sons. He made us, and he knows every hair on our heads with great intimacy. And so couldn't it be the case that he could know quite a lot about the future, that he could be omniscient and he could be all knowing, and yet that not mean that he's forcing the future in a way that takes away the meaningfulness of it. 

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Jo Vitale [00:15:57] That's very helpful. And we let Vince answer that question because it got a little philosophical for me, but you're good at putting it in terms that are understandable. But following that thought, Brittany, you also wrote the following question, "Does prayer really have influence on God?" And I think that's the key piece of this, isn't it? Like, do our prayers actually make a difference? If it's possible that God could know the future and yet our prayers are able to make a difference, do they make a difference even so? And I think so often the way we hear prayer talked about in Christian circles, is in terms of well then, we pray because it changes us. That's the primary reason you pray. So that the more time you spend in the presence of God, the more your heart is aligned with his heart and therefore you change. You're moved by prayer. Prayer changes you. Now, I completely agree with that and I think that is really, really important. However, I think the fact that prayer changes us does not also mean that prayer doesn't change the world too. I actually think that if we don't think prayer can actually change circumstances or cause a different outcome or a different future because of the fact that we prayed, I don't know that we're taking the Bible seriously enough. 

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[00:17:15] Listen to some of the things that Jesus himself says about prayer. John 14:14 he says, "If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it." Or Mark 11:24, "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it and it will be yours." Direct words from Jesus, which I find incredible because I feel like sometimes those are the sort of words if we overheard them in someone else's sermon, we might be tempted to jump and be like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Be careful. Don't have too great an expectation on prayer." And then suddenly you realize, no, but those words come from Jesus. We have to take those so seriously. I think they almost are so bold that as Christians, we're afraid to believe that might actually be true. We want to dumb that down because that doesn't seem very safe to actually make that bold claim that if you ask for anything in prayer and believe that you've received it, it will be yours. We get a little frightened of those words and that implication sometime. We want to dumb them down, but they come from Jesus himself. Another verse, James 4:2- 3. This really hits me. "You do not have because you do not ask God. When you ask, you do not receive because you ask with wrong motives. That you may spend what you get on your pleasures." 

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[00:18:26] Now, James is helping us understand why sometimes we don't get what we're asking for because we've asked the wrong motives. But notice the line before, "You do not have because you do not ask God." In other words, what James is saying here is there are things in your life that actually could be yours even now. You could have already had them if you just asked. The implication being you don't have it because you didn't ask for it. And that kind of blows my mind, actually, that your prayers do make a difference. And I was really struck particularly because I think sometimes we can think about this in a sort of framework of, well, maybe we can influence God in the little things. Like, maybe in the small decisions our prayers might make a difference whether we turn left or right in this little situation. But do they really make a difference about the big things, or is everything so scripted out that your prayer wouldn't impact anything one way or another? But I was really hit considering this question from the passage in 2nd Kings chapter 20, when Hezekiah was stricken with a terminal illness, and then the prophet Isaiah visits him and says, "This is what the Lord said, give your household instructions, for you are about to die." Word from the Lord. You're about to die. You will not get well. Is what it says. 

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[00:19:40] And then Hezekiah turns his face to the wall and prays. And he prays. Please, Lord, remember how I have served you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion, and how I have carried out your will. Please, God, remember. And then he weeps bitterly. And then immediately before Isaiah has even left the room, another message from the Lord comes to him, says, "Go back and tell Hezekiah, that this is what the Lord God, your ancestor David has said. I have heard your prayer. I have seen your tears. Look, I will heal you. And the day after tomorrow you'll go up to the Lord's temple," and it says, "I will add 15 years to your life and rescue you and this city from the king of Assyria." This is mind blowing, right? He's been told by a prophet of the Lord you're going to die. That's how clear it is. And yet when he prays and ask God to remember him, the response of the Lord is, I've seen you and I've heard you, and now I'm saying the opposite. I'm saying you will be healed, even though I said you would not get well. And I'm actually adding 15 years to your life. So, this isn't just like small stuff, is it? This is about life and death. 

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[00:20:45] I was thinking about the life of my father. I think part of what was going on my mind is straight into the thought of will it make a difference anyway? The Lord will do what he's going to do, and whatever the Lord Jesus do will be good. And therefore, I just trust him. And, yes, I do trust him. And I believe the will only do what is good. I don't think like it's a choice between God might do something good or he'll do something evil, and if we pray, we'll steer him towards the good. Of course not. The Lord will only ever do what is good and right and just and the most loving thing. We can trust him for that. But could it be possible that actually, within the range of what is good, there are many things that God could do that is good. There are many outcomes that could come that the Lord could work for good. But when we pray, the Lord hears our prayers and actually responds to them in such a way where he says, because you have asked me for this, because you've come to me and asked me to remember you, you've trusted in me, you've looked to me as a father and treated me to be like the father who wants to give good gifts, I will actually remember you and respond to that prayer in such a way that the good I will bring out of this, out of the many goods I could have brought, the way I'm going to do it is in this way that I will allow you to live. 

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[00:21:53] I will actually cause somebody to live who I previously said was not going to make it. I mean, that is how powerful prayer can be. So, I've come to a place of really believing with prayer, yes, I do think prayer makes a difference. I think it can make a huge difference in the world. And I think that is why Jesus is so clear about it, that if you ask for anything in my name, if you ask it out of a desire to honor me, out of an intention that I would be glorified, that good will come out of it. It's not contrary to the will of God, but it can be specific, very specific things, and if you ask for it in my name, I will give it to you. I love to give good gifts to you. So, the more I start with those passages, the more I thought I need to pray more. My prayers make such a difference. Why am I not praying about so many things? And so, I just want to encourage you to do the same. To believe that actually the Lord wants to hear from you. The Lord loves it when you say, remember me? And he says, "I see you and I hear you, and I'm going to do something good in your life. You just watch and see what I'm going to do with this."

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Vince Vitale [00:22:56] And if that is the case, if biblically, our prayers do clearly have an influence, then someone's going to ask, though, why are some prayers not answered? And I don't think that there's a one size fits all answer to that question. But there are a number of things that we should consider. First, are we in intimate relationship with God? We have to ask that question first. If someone I don't know asks me to cosign on a mortgage for them, I'll probably just give them a weird look. That would be an odd question, and I probably wouldn't respond to that question positively to somebody that I really don't know. But if a family member asks me to do the same, I'm at least going to take that request very seriously. Substantial asking and receiving between people is intended to take place in the context of a relationship and in a way that builds relationship and it's not disconnected from it. And I think the same is true with God. And this raises a more general point, that whenever prayer doesn't seem to be working, we always assume it's God's fault. But, of course, we know from all our other relationships communication is a two-way street. It takes time. First of all, conversation is not effective when you're always just rushing through it, just throwing words in someone's direction or interrupting each other or running out the door. And sometimes our prayer is like that. And also, it takes focus, right? Conversation is also not effective when you're distracted or not listening or multitasking on your phone. I can feel Jo looking at me. 

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Jo Vitale [00:24:33] I'm glad you can feel it. 

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Vince Vitale [00:24:36] That's right. That means we're still communicating.  

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Jo Vitale [00:24:38] Yeah. You can feel my stare. 

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Vince Vitale [00:24:39] But we often think any prayer is better than no prayer. Even as I say that line, I think, yeah, there's something intuitive about that. But the more I think about it, the more I think that's not actually completely clear. That's certainly not the case in our marriage. Bad conversation in a marriage is sometimes as bad or worse than no conversation. There are some conversations [inaudible] you should have just not said anything, that would have been better. And our relationship with Jesus is a marriage. And so, if we're always distracted or rushing in conversation, that can sometimes do more harm than good in the context of the relationship. Bad prayer is not clearly better than no prayer at all. It can actually be detrimental to relationship. And so, after years of engaging with people's questions, I always try to remind myself whenever a good question is asked of another, it's also worth turning it around and asking it of yourself. So, when we feel like prayer is not working, our first instinct should not be to think, well, something is wrong with God, or God has done something wrong. But to turn that question around and say, "Hey, are there any ways that we and our rhythms of prayer and our sincerity of prayer might be contributing to prayer not working in the way that we see biblically it can?"

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Jo Vitale [00:25:58] Yeah, I think that's really helpful. And I think one other thought to add there is that I think we also have to examine ourselves and ask the question, how are we living? Because sometimes if we're not living well, God may not say yes to our prayers. I think we see biblical examples of this as well. In 1 John 3:21-22. "Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God, and whatever we ask, we receive from him because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him." Or, again, that that passage in James 4:3, "You ask, but you do not receive because you ask wrongly to spend it on your passions." Don't get me wrong. I don't think that prayer is works, based in the sense that we have to be a perfect Christian before God ever answers our prayers. But I do think there's a sense in which if we're living in such a way that we're not looking to honor God, and particularly asking for things in our prayers that have nothing to do with what would be pleasing to him, then there may well be a sense in which he's not going to be answering those prayers, is he? 

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[00:27:01] And I think we hear that and we think, well, is that just God being mean or withholding and saying, well, if you're not nice to me, I'm not going to be nice to you. Isn't that kind of petty? But, no, I don't think it's about punishing us, but actually I think it's out of his heart of love for us and that he truly desires what is best for us. And sometimes that means he really wants to protect us. Just think about a parent-child relationship. Again, if one of our children comes to us and ask something of us that either he just really shouldn't, or he's asking something that could be a good thing but we know the place that he's in his life he's not going to use it in a good way, then we would actually be reckless and kind of derelict parents if we just gave it to him regardless just because he asked for it. If Raphael one day comes to us and asks for a car-- oh my goodness, that's a terrifying thought. I mean, certainly if he asked that at the age of five, it would be a strong no. But even if he was old enough, even if he was at the point in his life where other people around him were getting cars, part of our response to that ask from him would depend upon what kind of maturity is he exhibiting as an individual at that stage of life? Is he trustworthy? Is he actually trustworthy to be driving a car? 

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[00:28:10] And if he's not, then it would be silly of us to buy him one anyway when he's behaving in such a way that he wouldn't only be a danger to himself, but to other people on the road. And so, I think sometimes we kind of want God to be the sort of deistic God who just sprinkles blessings randomly, or we want Christ to be kind of like we just walk down the road and we just see $100 bill and we just pick it up. That he's giving things to us regardless of whether we have any sort of interest in him in the first place. But I think we have to ask always, as with everything, what is the goal in life? Is life just about getting what we want from God, regardless of how we feel about him? Or is the purpose of life to actually come to know God himself? Is it relationship with God? And if that is the end goal, then whether God answers prayers or not is in part going to depend upon whether the thing that we're asking for is actually going to lead us towards him or away from him. And I don't mean that in selfish times that God only wants to please himself, and so he'll only answer our prayers if it works out for him? 

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[00:29:11] I don't actually think it's self-centered in that way, but God knows what is best for us. He wants us to have abundant life, but he knows that he's made us for himself, and therefore the only way we have again that abundant life is actually by coming towards him, by moving towards him. So, if God just answers all prayers regardless of whether we have any interest in him or not, regardless of how we live, and then we just get what we want, and then we just walk away being like, “Okay, well, great, I got it,” then is that going to move us towards him? I don't think so. We'll never recognize the need for God in our life if we're getting everything we want regardless of whether we're acknowledging God or not. So, there is a goal here. Sometimes God will graciously answer prayers, even when we're not showing a lot of interest in him because he's kind and because he's working through it in a way that will help draw us towards him. But other times, if it's not going to do that, why should we expect him to give us what we want? And I think framing it this way can help us. Because I think oftentimes what we see, is that Christians and skeptics we talk about prayer in different ways, don't we? Because we have different experiences of it. 

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[00:30:17] So Christians might talk all the time about look at how many prayers God has answered in my life, I have this long list of all these answered prayers. Meanwhile, people who don't know God is saying, "Well, I tried praying to God or I was in a crisis and I ask God this and he didn't answer my prayers." And both of us use our experiences as evidence, either for or against God. The Christian will say, "Well, God answered so many of my prayers. He must exist." While his nonbelievers will say, "Well, I tried praying. God didn't answer my prayer, so, clearly, this is proof that he doesn't exist." But what Vince and I are saying is that, actually, unanswered prayers prayed outside of genuine relationship with God cannot be evidence against God. Because once we understand the framework of what prayer actually is, that it's about helping us come to know God and get deeper in relationship with him. Then, far from this being evidence against God, it's actually exactly what we should expect of him, isn't it? 

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[00:31:07] That for the Christian who's leaning into God, who desires his will and knows God as a father, he wants to give them good gifts. And, yes, he's going to be answering those prayers. Whereas, if you don't know God and you're not looking to know God and you're just flinging prayers at him, kind of just because you want him to be a magic wand that just grants your wishes whenever you want, but you don't want him, then there's no reason to expect that he would answer in the way that you're asking for. So rather than it being evidence contrary to him, I actually think that this is what we should expect of him. So, I just think sometimes that argument you'll sometimes see, I don't think it really holds water when we really understand from a biblical perspective what prayer is intended to actually be all about. 

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Vince Vitale [00:31:47] That's really helpful. And I've made a note here, Jo. No car for Raphael until he stops running over brother with bicycle. 

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Jo Vitale [00:31:55] Yes. [Crosstalk].

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Vince Vitale [00:31:59] It's really helpful. Then just taking another step here, even when we are in strong relationship with God; okay, let's say that is solidified and we're in healthy communication, that is happening with him, he still sometimes says yes and sometimes there's no and sometimes there's not yet. And that can often feel confusing. But I do think the more you think that through, it's actually not as mysterious as we often make it out to be. When children ask their parents for things, some things parents will give their children, regardless of whether they ask, right? It's essential. JJ's getting his broccoli whether he asked for it or not. He needs to eat nutritional food. Some things parents won't give children, even if they ask, because they're harmful. And it just wouldn't be a good thing to give to a child regardless whether they've asked. And then some things parents give children only if they ask. Why? Well, if Raphael winds up loving music, I'm going to buy him an instrument. If you want nothing to do with music, I might not buy him an instrument. I actually care about the desires of his heart. Like good parents, I think God actually cares about the desires of our heart. 

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[00:33:10] And you said it, Jo, that this brings conviction even in terms of what we pray for. Just last week I had an injury to my knee and I wasn't really asking for prayer for it. I wasn't praying about it myself. And when I reflected on that, I thought, the subconscious reasoning was God doesn't owe me anything. I've gotten to do so much with my body physically and all sorts of sports and stuff, and I just don't feel like he owes me anything. But then we're in a prayer gathering with our church, and I just sensed him saying, "Well, what if I just want to give a good gift to my child? I just I want to know what's on your heart. I actually care what's on your heart. And I know this is important to you. I know you want to be able to jump on the trampoline with your boys. I know you want to be able to play sports with them as they get older. I want you to express that to me. 

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[00:33:57] I actually care about the desires of your heart." And even for human parents, these are not always easy calls. The yes, the no, and the not yet. Real discernment necessary there. If you never give a child what he wants, you're not a good parent. But if you always give a child what he wants, you also wouldn't be a good parent. And I find it interesting how often we have a sort of double standard with God. That sometimes we criticize our Heavenly Father for acting just how we would say a human father should act. A human parents should sometimes say yes on the essentials, sometimes say no on what's harmful. And then in that middle ground, you can't determine it, and it depends on the context, and it depends on the desires of the hearts of the people involved. 

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Jo Vitale [00:34:41] Yeah, that's so helpful. And then I think we also have to just be honest about the fact that sometimes we have heart's desires that God still says no to. And those are the hardest ones, right? When we don't get the yes that we wanted, even though we long for it and even though we could make a strong case for why from our human perspective we could see the good in it. And Vince and I have experience in this area. It's been amazing, on the one hand, to see the way God has been answering prayers about my dad. I cannot believe how well he is at the moment and how well he has come through his stem cell transplant. And it's still a long journey. It's not over yet. We're still praying every day. We're still dependent upon the Lord. It's a long road. But as you said the other day, it's like half time when he's [inaudible] so far, it's been amazing the way God has been answering our prayers for his life. I've been astonished and blown away by the grace on that. Other times it's been a no. We wanted to have a child and then find out we were going to have a miscarriage. And then we've shared about this before, but I prayed for two weeks after the doctor delivered that news. And saying, well, I believe in a God of resurrection, so I'm going to keep praying that God will give us this child, a longing for that child. And it was still a no. And that was extremely hard at the time to get the answer we didn't want, and to grieve the child that we lost, and also particularly at that time, to not have any understanding of why, Lord? 

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[00:36:09] Why did we lose this child? That was so extremely painful. And years down the line, there are some things I could say about perhaps why God would have allowed that to happen. But it still doesn't undo the grief of the loss of that child who we longed for. And so then, for me, in those moments, it comes back to something [inaudible] said once, that we may be in the dark about what God is doing, but we're not in the dark about God. I don't always know why God responded that way. But this side of heaven, I don't think I'll ever have the answer to that very painful question. But I have experienced enough of who he is to trust in his character and in his goodness. I'm not in the dark about him, even if I am in the dark about why in that particular situation we didn't get to meet Luke at this side of heaven. And so, yeah, there are yeses and noes, and sometimes they're really, really painful. But I don't regret praying to God in that season and leaning into him even though it was so painful not getting the response I wanted. Because I will say that God met me in that grief in a way that is hard to put into words, but that was very deep and very comforting. And even though I didn't get the yes that I wanted; I did feel profoundly seen by him. And so even in that I don't regret praying or feel like prayer was wasteful, even though he didn't meet me with the answer that I wanted. But he did meet me. 

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Vince Vitale [00:37:33] Yeah. No is often the hardest answer we can receive. And part of any significant relationship is accepting no from the person that you love. If the person you love never says no to you or can't say no to you, then there's a sense in which they can't give you a real yes as well. C.S. Lewis wrote a wonderful piece that makes this point just before he died. It's called The Letters to Malcolm, and he talks about how the reason that prayer doesn't always get answered with a yes is because prayer is not a machine. If God never says no, then he's just a vending machine. And then you wouldn't be in relationship with God. Then you would actually own God. And it is precisely that we can't always predetermine God's answers to prayer that makes it inherently relational. He's not just that vending machine, nor is he an abstract philosophical principle, a categorical imperative or whatever philosophical principle you want to point to, or just a set of rules. 

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[00:38:32] Even everyday decisions, if God just gave me a rule that I should never go on vacation, then I don't need to go to him to actually pray about should I take the family on this vacation? I could just follow the rule. But he wants so much. He wants even the details of our life to be relational in that way, where I can't just follow the rule with respect to everything. I actually have to go to him and we have to have good conversation about his care for my family, the fact that he does delight in my family being cared for and receiving enjoyment, but he also cares for the poor around the world and he wants there to be serious thought given to steward of his resources and the money that he allows us to steward. I have to have really meaningful, discerning conversations with him about whether we might take a certain vacation as opposed to just, okay, here's the rule. I can just follow it. The machine spits out this answer and I just say, "Okay, thank thanks very much for that." So, there's something about the way that God has structured prayer that is really inherently relational. 

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Jo Vitale [00:39:36] And I think that helps us in terms of how we think about the answer to the last question that Brittany asked, which was, if he already knows all our thoughts and ways, what is the purpose of expressing them to him verbally? I think that's so well said, Brittany, because you're totally right. If God already knows what's in our hearts, if he already can read our thoughts, if he understands them better than we do, why do we need to verbalize? Why can't we just be like, okay, God already know, so we don't have to talk about this. It's just understood. And I get that because sometimes the bringing it up, it can feel painful. So, you might rather just be like, "God, make of this what you will. I'm not going to bring it to you." But I think, again, it comes back to that framework of deeply desiring relationship with us. And I think it's also about our posture as well. We have an interesting dynamic at the moment with our a three-year-olds, JJ, who sometimes when he gets hurt and upset, he'll decide that only one parent is allowed to comfort him. And so, one of us will go to him if he's crying because he stubbed his toe or something, and he'll be like, "No, not mama. Only dada." Only dada or the other way round. 

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[00:40:45] And it's kind of an interesting little power play that he's doing. But I think sometimes that's what we do as well when we say God, well, just read my mind, but I'm not going to bring it to you. And what we're essentially doing is we're kind of clasping it to ourselves, but we're not letting God in to the situation. We're not letting him into the moment. It's like we're holding up a hand and saying, "Go, come no further." Perhaps I'll deal with my own emotions myself, or maybe I'll go and talk to them about a friend and I'll complain about it to a friend. But, God, I won't bring it to you. I'm not going to bring it to you. And I think in those moments, what God really desires is to say, "Hey, let me in. Don't just sit in these feelings or don't just complain about them with a friend, but bring them to me. Let me be the one who comforts you. Don't withhold from me. Let me be your comforter. Let me meet you in those feelings." And I think it's partly about letting him in and therefore letting him know that we value him and we cherish him, and we treasure him in all of our emotions, even if we don't know how to say them, even if we don't have the words to put on them. Just bringing him the feelings and the pain, and even in whatever articulate form they come, in our times of grief, that means so much to him. 

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[00:41:50] But also something powerful happens when we bring those things to him and we start talking to him about it. I think it also means that in the act of sharing with him, we also then bring ourselves to a place where we're able to hear him and listen to him as well because we've started a conversation. And I really love the way that my five-year-old, Raphael, he he's learning to do this. If I do something that he doesn't like or agree with, sometimes at the end of the day he'll say to me, "Mom, do you remember when you did this today? Like, remember when you said, no, that I couldn't have that or I couldn't go outside and play on the trampoline because it was time for a bath?" You know what he'd say to me? "That made me really sad when you said that." And I love that he's bringing those feelings to me. I already knew he felt that way because of the looks he was giving me. But I love that he's telling me about it because it gives me a chance to hear from his heart, to know that he trusts me, even in the hurt, that he still desires me and wants me. But also, it gives me a chance to comfort him first off, to meet him in his feelings and to say, "Hey, I see you." And I can say, "I'm so sorry that made you sad, Raph. I'm so sorry." I can acknowledge his hurt and sit with him in it. 

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[00:42:58] But then it also gives me the chance to affirm that I love him, and that my desire is to treat him well and be good to him. And it even then gives me the chance to start to speak to him a little bit about why I made that decision. And he may not always understand my reasoning. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to him-- often it doesn't make sense to him, but it still gives me a chance to show him my heart for him and my tone and the way that I respond and the hug that I give him, even if he doesn't always get the whys or disagrees with my decision. But it brings us closer to our ability to have those conversations. It draws us so much closer. And I experienced this with my dad when I reached the point when I started really praying for him and asking God for the thing that I wanted and not withholding my deep yearning and desire is for my dad to live from God, but bringing all of my grief and my fear and my longing to the Lord. I didn't really have words to say at times. I was more just sort of weeping on the floor in church. 

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[00:43:51] But I did have this profound experience in one of those moments where I was just kneeling on the floor, crying, where suddenly, in my grief, it wasn't that God told me what he was or wasn't going to do, and I didn't have any outcomes or solutions given to me about the future, but I did have this moment where it's almost like I could just see in my mind Jesus hugging my dad, and the way that Jesus looked at my father. And I felt like I was being given this glimpse into this sweet intimacy between Jesus and my dad. And I just felt like a little bit saying, "See how much I love your father? See how much I love him." And it kind of reframed everything for me because, I'd already been saying, well, I know that the Lord has the best of my dad no matter what, but it was more theoretical. But being present in that worship moment, crying my heart out on the floor, kneeling before the Lord in that place, I just felt this kind of ability to surrender my dad to the Lord because I saw how much he loved him, how much he loved my father. 

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[00:44:52] And, therefore, in a way that went beyond the intellectual, how much I could trust Jesus, and the way that he was going to walk my dad through this, and the intimacy with which you would be holding him and walking with him every step of the way. And I wouldn't have had that if I hadn't verbalized those feelings to God. If I hadn't actually brought them to him, he couldn't have shown me even how he was going to answer the prayer, but what his heart was for my father, and also what his heart was for me. And it brought me such a feeling of peace and of comfort and a deeper love for Jesus because I saw how much he loved my dad, and therefore how much he loved me as well. So, I think we verbalize these things because it's what you do in relationship. It allows you to have a posture of openness to the Lord, but also it allows him to speak to you in a way that may surprise you or may not change the circumstance, but it will change you. It will change your feelings about him and about what he's doing. And it can be deeply encouraging. 

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Vince Vitale [00:45:50] Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense to me, because I think this sort of thinking sometimes gets me in trouble in marriage. And, again, our relationship with God is a marriage. And, Jo, you don't want to just know that I love you want me to actually express that to you.

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Jo Vitale [00:46:07] Yeah. 

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Vince Vitale [00:46:07] And you don't just want to know that I hope you had a good day, you want me to actually care enough to ask about your day. That makes a lot of sense what you said. All right, before we finish, let's just circle back to the very practical point at the beginning of Brittany's question. When we're having a difficult time praying, what should we actually do? And just some practical thoughts here. Ask others to pray for you. Pray corporately with others. There's this way that praying alongside others, you can be carried along by the prayers of the community where it's not all on you to have the energy for those prayers. Pray through Scripture. Sometimes I just read Scripture and then I go back over what I've already read, and I just change it just slightly into my own words that just contextualize it for what I'm going through. Pray by listening. Listen to Scripture or listen to worship music and in your heart just affirm sometimes what you hear when you don't have the energy or the emotion maybe to speak the words yourself. 

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[00:47:12] Or get creative. If you don't have words at all, maybe just take a walk and take pictures of certain things that symbolize what you want prayer for. If you're more of a visual person, and maybe you just don't have the words at that time and put them in some sort of prayer folder. And maybe if you're someone who's listening and you're, like, I'm not struggling with prayer right now, well, who in your vicinity is? Be mindful of that. This is a beautiful way that we can serve one another within the church. So often times we're thinking, like, what are the needs in my direct vicinity and maybe they're not obvious to us? Well, who's struggling to pray? You ask that question of your small group or of your friends. Is there anything that anyone is struggling to pray for, then pray for them. Yes. But maybe even again, get creative, write out a prayer. What if you wrote out a couple pages worth of a prayer for someone, and then that person could just take that as this personal connection between you and them? You're serving your friend, and they could just read your prayer. But you know them, so there's something personal about it. You know their situation. You're almost like praying on their behalf. And they're joining in with the words that you've put down to paper. That could be a beautiful thing to do. 

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[00:48:23] One thing I've done very recently, super practical, but has had a really significant impact-- I just want to pass this on to you guys-- I've labeled a folder in my photos on my phone, Ebenezer, because we are just so forgetful. I am so forgetful as a person. I'm so not good at keeping track of the prayers that I have prayed and all of the prayers that God has answered. God has answered so many prayers in my life, and I never even gave him credit for that. I never even thanked him for it because I forgot that I even prayed it. And so, what I do is that whenever God responds to a prayer, whenever there's a clear answer to a prayer, I just take a photo that symbolizes to me God's kindness and his goodness, his faithfulness in responding to that prayer. And then I put it in this folder, Ebenezer. And I'm finding that every few weeks if there's ever a point where I'm just struggling to see God's goodness and the brokenness of the world, or there's a point where I'm struggling to pray, I just open up that folder and just start to sort of flick from one picture to the next. And within seconds, I feel so deeply encouraged. And I realize it's not that God is not hearing my prayers and that he's not responding, it's just that I am such a forgetful person, and it convinces me literally within seconds that God is always doing more than we can see and more than we can remember, nevertheless. 

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Jo Vitale [00:49:43] Yeah, that's such a helpful, practical step. I think I just I want to reiterate, as we finish, just one point that Vince just made there, which is that this is really an opportunity for us as the body of Christ to build each other up. One thought that comes to my mind is are there opportunities for you to be the answer to other people's prayers, even when you're struggling to pray your own? There have been times that I've struggled to pray for myself, but I've actually found it much more possible to pray for other people. And in turn, it has surprisingly blessed me when I start praying for other people, because I find that in the blessing of them, I'm getting to see God bless them. It also reminds me, even if I'm not feeling it in the moment, that God wants to bless me. And I was so blessed last year when I was going through just a difficult week and I was struggling, and I actually woke up on a Sunday morning and I didn't know if I even would have instinctively tend to want to hear from the Lord that morning. But we had a Bible reading plan and so I just went to the reading plan. I didn't have much juice in me to be spontaneous, but I thought, well, I can just read the plan. 

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[00:50:49] And the text for the day was Psalm 127, and the line that just jumped at me when I opened it was, "Do not eat the bread of anxious toil, because God gives to his beloved sleep." And I have been so anxious all week, and I knew it. And when I read that verse, I just felt like the Lord was saying, "Don't eat that bread, Jo, like eat me. Eat the bread of life. Come to me, I will give you what you need. I have what you need. You don't need to be doing this on your own." And then I showed up for church and at the end of Church, one of the amazing intercessors-- just a woman of prayer in our church-- she came up to me at the end of the service and she handed me something wrapped in foil, and she just said, "Joe, last night on Saturday night, I was just listening to the Lord, and I felt like he told me that I needed to bake you a loaf of bread." And so, she handed me this loaf of bread, and it was just such a beautiful confirmation of what the Lord had already said to me that morning. Don't eat the bread of anxious toil, I will give you what you need. And it felt like she given me this symbolic bread, just to say, the Lord will provide; the Lord loves you. 

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[00:51:52] And so, just an encouragement. Firstly, she was being the answer to my prayer. She was being that for me. Are there opportunities for us to be in prayer for other people to be listening to the Lord and to be responsive? But secondly, I just took from that even when I didn't have the energy to verbalize my prayers, even when I was struggling to bring it before the Lord, I just want to encourage you as we finish that the Lord does see you. The Lord does see what your needs are even when you're struggling to bring them before him. It is true that he knows your heart and he is looking out for ways to comfort you. Scripture says that he is the God of all comfort. So, I just wanted to encourage you in those times where you're struggling to pray, when it feels like this aspect of your relationship with the Lord is difficult, just to be looking out for ways that the Lord is speaking to you, for ways that the Lord is reaching out because he desires to bless you. And above all, just to know that he is a God who sees you even today, even in your struggle that there's the Lord, he's looking out. The eyes of the Lord, it says in Scripture, range throughout all of the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him. The Lord is looking out for you today, and I know he wants to bless. So, let's have listeners hearts as we just going about our day. 

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Jo Vitale We’re so glad you joined us for Ask Away.

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Vince Vitale If you have a question that needs answering, we’d love to hear it.

Send us an email at askawayquestion@gmail.com or call and leave a voicemail at 321-213-9670.

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Jo Vitale Ask Away is hosted by Vince and Jo Vitale, and produced by Studio D Podcast Production.

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Vince Vitale See you next time. And remember, if you have a question, it’s worth asking.

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